Sam Ovens Interview with ScopeRush
Lior Ohayon: (00:01):
Hey guys. Thanks for coming back to the blog today. I have one of my first coaches, Sam Ovens with me, and we’re going to talk a bit about coaching and how to do the same thing for yourself, and also how to find a coach. Thanks for coming, Sam. I think you were actually one of my first coaches and I think I was actually one of your first students. If I remember correctly, you were just fresh out of The Foundation. You built your software company and I reached out to you and you’re like, I’m going to coach you. So that’s how we started. So, one thing I want to ask you from the beginning is how does one find a coach? Where should they look? Is there any criteria that they should look out for?
Sam Ovens: (00:37):
Sure. So I think it’s just important to choose someone who is where you want to get to. So you have to evaluate your current situation and where you are right now and then work out precisely where you want to get to in terms of, what are you offering? Are you doing software? Are you doing coaching? Are you doing consulting? Are you doing… Whatever. Figure out what you want to offer and figure out how much money you want to make and what lifestyle you want to live. Like, do you want to be doing the four hour work week and traveling around the world or do you want to be doing the full 50, 60, 70 hour week and trying to make as much money as possible? All of these things are important to consider. So your current situation, where you want to be, and then you want to find a coach who is where you want to be, because the worst thing you can do is start learning from someone and modeling somebody that is going to get you to a place where you don’t want to get to. So that’s really the only criteria.
Lior Ohayon: (01:43):
So don’t take on a coach in another industry or somewhere you don’t want to be.
Sam Ovens: (01:48):
Yeah, well, like if you want to live the four hour work week lifestyle and travel around and everything, don’t learn from a coach who’s worked 80 hour weeks for 10 years straight. Because it’s going to make you really unhappy.
Lior Ohayon: (02:05):
How about where to find them? Is there like a website you go to or is it just about making connections. Cause I know some people really want someone to teach them, but they have to wait and find the person to fall in their lap.
Sam Ovens: (02:21):
I think instead of searching for a coach, you more want to identify what is your industry or what is your niche? So if you’re offering SEO, that’s your niche, SEO, and it won’t take long to identify the best Facebook groups, the best news sources and blogs in that niche. And then you start reading those, you might reach out to a few people and ask them, “Hey, who’s the King of this space?” You really want to figure out who is the King or the Kings, like the top three. I wouldn’t really recommend learning from someone who hasn’t mastered their field. You want to find the source material. I always refer to it as the source material. Like if you’re going to learn copywriting, don’t learn it from some new guy, like go all the way back to the people who kind of pioneered it. If you want to learn finance, you go back to the people, the source material. So if you’re trying to find a coach in SEO you want to find someone who has mastered SEO and hasn’t just decided to start teaching people yesterday. Whatever it is you want to just make sure you’re learning from a master and not some average material because you’ll just end up learning the wrong things.
* Read more about this on our page Sam Ovens Scam
Lior Ohayon: (03:48):
Sure. Do you think every everyone who’s an entrepreneur wants to start a business should have a coach?
Sam Ovens: (03:53):
Absolutely. I even read the other day that the CEO of Google was paid tens of millions of dollars a year. He has stock options. He’s a seasoned executive. He’s been an chief executive his entire career. Like this guy is as sharp as they get. Well, actually they’ve just replaced the CEO. So this was the one that was the previous CEO. I’m sure the new CEO has a coach too, but the CEO of Google had a coach. The top CEOs of fortune 500 companies all over the world have a coach. LeBron James has a coach. If every professional has a coach, the worst thing you can say is I know everything and I don’t need any help.
*Wondering how much is Sam Ovens Worth? Forbes estimated his net worth about $65 Million USD and he still uses coaches and mentors to this day.
Lior Ohayon: (04:41):
What do you think the difference is between, and I see this a lot, people call it a mentor or coach and it’s kind of a catch 22 because people have to take action in order to reach out to a coach and hire one, but then there’s also a mentorship where they want someone calling them saying, did you do the homework? Did you take action? So which one should they go after? And what’s the difference between them really?
Sam Ovens: (05:05):
Well I think the difference between mentor and coach is just a word. They are really the same thing in terms of what the person’s going to offer. You have to choose something that’s going to fit for you. If you think they’re a possibility that you won’t act and you won’t do what you’re supposed to do, and you need someone calling you.. Well, you’re going to have to find a coach or mentor that offers that. But that’s something you have to decide. Do you need that person calling you or do you trust yourself to do what you need to do?
Lior Ohayon: (05:42):
Or you can find that accountability group and help you along with your mentor. Yeah. So in terms of price, everyone’s wondering, how much should I pay for a coach? Or like should I go to the guy who’s charging a thousand dollars or $10,000. Is price really related to how much value you’re gonna receive?
Sam Ovens: (06:00):
Definitely, and it comes down to the fact that someone who’s very successful and wealthy, they’re obviously going to be a better coach because they’ve done it, they are successful.
Lior Ohayon: (06:17):
Or they could be bad teachers…
Sam Ovens: (06:19):
True, but a lot of coaching isn’t really about if they’re a good teacher or not, it’s mostly about modeling off of them and being able to ask them for advice. Teaching doesn’t come into it so much. A lot of the people that have coached me are the worst teachers ever and I have to listen them and really decipher what they’re trying to say. Because they’re not teachers, they’re actual businessmen and experts so they’re not good at teaching at all. But what they’re saying is the best material ever. So I don’t think you should evaluate if someone is a good teacher, you should really only evaluate on whether or not they are an expert.
Lior Ohayon: (07:02):
How about if someone wants to get into coaching? I started doing a bit of coaching myself. How does someone know if they’re ready to start coaching or what material they should teach? Any advice on that?
Sam Ovens: (07:14):
So the biggest mistake in our industry is that people teach things that they haven’t mastered. And it’s a recipe for disaster if you’re teaching something that you haven’t mastered yourself. So if you’re going to teach sales, but you can’t sell yourself, then your clients who are students are not going to have results. It’s all gonna really show through in your marketing and in your conversations and everything. I think the way it works in our industry is you go out and you master something, and then when you’ve truly mastered it you can kind of flip the model and teach other people how to master it themselves.
Lior Ohayon: (07:55):
Right. So are you comfortable saying to your students, I can’t teach certain things… I can only teach you specific things or this is what I’ve mastered?
Sam Ovens: (08:05):
Absolutely. I wouldn’t teach someone how to do SEO or even how to do digital marketing things. There are people out there that are a thousand times better than me at Facebook ads, SEO, landing pages, split testing like those aren’t my areas of expertise. And a good coach will say that, they’ll refer you to someone else. They will only teach in the area of their core competence.
Lior Ohayon: (08:33):
Yeah. A lot of people are asking, do I teach SEO? Even though I teach a specific prospect method for SEO. I’m not gonna teach you SEO, I’m not even that amazing at SEO, there’s way better people you can learn from, but I’ll teach you how to get prospects for SEO. So that’s pretty much what I’ve encountered. Sam, thanks so much for your time. Do you have any final advice for the audience that’s watching this right now in terms of coaching, in terms of starting their business? Any last words?
Sam Ovens: (09:02):
I think don’t even think about becoming a coach until you’ve, you’ve mastered something yourself. And the best way to master something is to find one. Because I’ve been in business for a while now, I can look back over time and see what’s worked and what hasn’t. I can also look at my financials and see where money’s gone and what the result of that was. And it was really cool to see that over time, the account that we put our coaching or education into is called learning and development. That’s what we call the account. And over time learning and development went from kind of zero, and I’d always think that paying for advice was bad, and then I slowly started buying books and then some online courses and subscriptions, and then ultimately real people helping me.
Sam Ovens: (09:54):
And over time it’s gone from kind of zero to I think this year we’ve probably spent $200,000 on external advice. That’s coaches, mentors, books, things like that. And it has a direct relationship to the amount of money I make. So I think the worst thing you can do is think that it’s a waste and that you can do it all yourself. I think you should always allocate a certain amount of budget to learning and development. And know that you’re never going to stop learning. A lot of people think that they go to college and then they’re done, or they do one training program and then they’re done, the truth is that it never stops.
Lior Ohayon: (10:37):
I actually spent more this year coaching and books and education than I did in university. So that’s just goes to show how much that matters. So in terms of books, do you recommend any? What are the top two books you recommend if someone were to get started?
Sam Ovens: (10:55):
Well, mindset’s a big thing for people getting started and the best book for that would be Psycho-Cybernetics by Maxwell Maltz. And then salesmanship, and for that I would read SPIN selling by Neil Rackham. I always say that the areas you want to work on in terms of your skills is mindset, salesmanship, marketing, and general business strategy. And the four books for each one of those is Psycho-Cybernetics, spin selling, breakthrough advertising in terms of marketing is probably the best book I’ve ever read, and then blue ocean strategy for business strategy. Those are the main four areas and the best books in those areas.
Lior Ohayon: (11:42):
What would the difference be between reading a book or just jumping straight to getting a coach? Do you recommend someone read first or work up the ladder like you did with courses, then coaching or just jump straight into hiring coaches?
Sam Ovens: (11:55):
If I was to do it again, I would’ve hired a coach immediately. But most people have to kind of see the proof that there is value. So for me, I had to fork out for a book, and then I applied one of the little things I learned in the book and it made me back more than what I paid for the book. And I was like okay. And then after that, it happened enough times I became completely comfortable with buying books and then came the courses. The same thing happened. And I had to kind of prove to myself that spending money on education was going to pay back. And to get to the coaching level, which is generally the most expensive where it’s in the thousands of dollars, It took me two, two and a half, three years to get to that point. And the truth is if I had done that from day one, I would be probably twice as successful as I am now.
Lior Ohayon: (12:50):
Yesterday I was on a call… Didn’t go so well, it went all right, but I didn’t get a definite yes. I turned to Sam, he said just say this one little line at the end and then see what happens. Offer an incentive, take it away. It’s a little more complicated. Got on the call, lo and behold, 20 minutes later, brand new retainer client. So thanks to Sam for that, but that’s just an example of investing in something and seeing the value in it sooner rather than later. Thanks a lot again for that. If you actually want the line that he told me it’s going to be below the video and you can get it right there. So Sam, thanks so much for having me over it was a pleasure and I appreciate all your coaching.