Sam Ovens Interview on Influencers Radio 

About This Interview

Date: November 2013

Interviewer: Jack Mize from Influencers Radio

Original Source: Influencers Radio on Spreaker


Jack Mize: (00:01):

Welcome back to another episode of influencers radio. Today, we are going to be talking about fame versus fortune as it really applies to the business world. And I think any of you that are entrepreneurs that own your own business are going to know exactly what I’m talking about. As we dig into this, because it’s a decision that a lot of businesses have to make, and unfortunately it’s a decision that a lot of businesses go the wrong way, at the wrong time, when they are deciding whether they’re going to focus on particular types of branding versus marketing. I’m talking about real client customer getting marketing, and that’s exactly what my guests today really focuses on and is one of the most sought after digital marketing consultants out there from Auckland New Zealand.

Jack Mize: (01:22):

He helps US business consultants and coaches get more clients. (Get A Sam Ovens Free Trial for Consulting Accelerator here.) And you know what? I love that you can’t get more concrete and concise with that. Helps business consultants and coaches get more clients through digital marketing. Please welcome my guest today to influencers radio, Mr. Sam ovens. Sam, welcome to influencers radio. So it reminds me of something I heard on the radio, I think it was Bill Murray the actor, said he was asked about: isn’t it great to be rich and famous as an actor? And he said if that’s anyone’s aspirations try being rich first and see if that doesn’t cover most of it. And one of the things that I really liked is that you focus the most important part of business, which is clients. The fact is that there is no business without clients.

Jack Mize: (02:21):

You see a lot of businesses, the first thing they do before they get started is say; I have to get this nice website up, I have to get 5,000 likes on my Facebook page before I can really get out there and start working to get clients. And you really help businesses that are past that, that say, you know what, it’s time to roll up the sleeves and get down to business and start doing what this business was originally meant to do. And that is to serve customers, and you particularly work with business coaches and consultants. So what do you find when a coach or consultant comes to you? What is generally that obstacle that they’re facing in order to move to that next level of growing their business by concentrating on getting more clients?

Sam Ovens: (03:13):

The main reason someone will come to me is when they feel like they have no predictable way to grow. So typically consultants and coaches, they have got to where they are by trying a lot of different things. They might’ve spoken on a stage one month, done a webinar the next, tried out some Facebook ads the next, maybe done some direct mail and they are always kind of pulling a new rabbit out of the hat and it’s worked for them. It’s enabled them to grow and they’ve gotten to where they are by doing that. But there’s this fear that what happens one month, if I don’t come up with something new and creative that will bring clients in. So there’s that fear, but there’s also the pain that comes from not being able to really just pull a lever and be able to grow the business.

Sam Ovens: (04:08):

And the analogy I use all the time is that most consultants and coaches, they don’t have a gas pedal for their business that makes the car go forward. So if they’re growing at a steady rate, they don’t know which one activity to do more of to actually grow. So there’s a fear that they might not be able to get more clients one month, there’s also the pain of not being able to grow at the rate that they want to. And they typically come to me wanting to install a predictable system for attracting more clients into their business.

Jack Mize: (04:43):

I think you said something that most people did not miss and really stuck out. And I want to put a spotlight on it. Predictability. A predictable stream of clients, I guess, a pipeline of clients, because what you said is, and you said it so well. The way that you described that is so many business owners and entrepreneurs and particularly, I would imagine in the coaching and consulting world, it’s almost like being a Hunter. You go out the door and you think, well, I hope there’s food out there today. I hope the weather’s good today. I hope the conditions are right for me to be able to go and get some food today. And there is no real predictable way to to do this. Now I’ll tell you, there’s a lot of people that don’t think that really exists. It’s a myth. After they’ve done it for a few years they think that they have to scramble every month just to grab what’s out there. What do you say to someone that says convince me that there is really a predictable system that can do this?

Sam Ovens: (05:55):

Sure. So I used to be person. I used to think that was just the way of being a consultant and that you are always battling and always struggling. But the thing that made me not give up and really made me keep looking was that I just couldn’t get my head around why some consultants were doing so well. Like I would always be looking at some guys who would be doing consistent $200,000, $300,000 months and I was like, well, how are these guys making multiple millions? They seem to be doing it year after year, just back to back success and it’s not slowing down at all. And so I was like, well, how can they do it while I can’t? And so if I can see that people are doing something successfully, that makes me know that there definitely is a way. So that’s what for anyone out there that thinks that it’s impossible… It’s not if someone in your industry is doing it and I can tell you that there are multiple people in our industry that are doing it.

(Net Worth of Sam Ovens is now reportedly over $65 million)

Jack Mize: (07:13):

Well, you talked about how they’ll go month to month, maybe this month try Facebook ads next month, the next a speaking engagement where they can pull. It seems like each month they’re just barely getting enough to cover it. And some of them are so thankful for that. Like hey I managed to cover what I needed to. And what you do is take those people and say, no. I think that gas pedal analogy you made was brilliant. Give them some control over their business and over the throttle of their business. And when you say that it makes me think that there’s a measurement involved. How much do you do as far as measurement analytics metrics that let people know what’s working and what’s not? And how many people do you see that actually have that when you start working with them?

Sam Ovens: (08:10):

Yes. That’s one of the first questions I ask someone. I’m like, “how much does it cost you to get a customer?” And they just steer. They have no idea. So that is a large piece of the problem. I mean most people have no idea how much it costs for them to get a customer and the successful consultants, they know that they have to spend a thousand dollars to get a customer and they can do that all day long. So if one month they want to earn more money they’ll just spend more on their marketing and their advertising while the consultants that struggle, they have no sort of measurement or anything. They don’t even understand how to acquire a customer. They think it’s more of a luck of the draw sort of thing.

Jack Mize: (09:04):

Shoot an arrow up in the air and hope it hits something when it comes down versus actually having a plan to do that. And metrics are important. One of the terms that I’ve heard you use is vanity metrics. How many people do you run into that can’t tell you how much it costs them to get a customer, but they could tell you how much it costs them to get a like on Facebook?

Sam Ovens: (09:29):

Yeah. Well, I mean, vanity metrics is a really good word for that. A lot of people will hype up that they’ve got a hundred thousand page views a month, that they’ve got 40,000 Facebook likes, 10,000 Instagram followers. They’ll just jot off all of these metrics and it makes them sound like they’re doing really well, but we have to remember that in business the only thing that really matters is net profit. A lot of these guys would probably flee the country if ever they had to turn over their financial statements to their subscribers and their followers. So there’s often a massive discrepancy between fame and fortune and between the metrics that are used to inflate your ego compared to the core metrics that truly make up a business.

Jack Mize: (10:33):

Yeah. And I think when you say that ego, that’s a word that people aren’t comfortable with and I heard it once said that ego doesn’t care whether you’re successful or not. It only cares if other people think you’re successful. And do you see that people, I don’t know is it frustration? Or is it that they don’t know what else to do if they can’t actually get more of these clients, I should at least spend some time and effort on giving the illusion that I’m successful at what I do. What would you call that phenomenon? Because I know that happens more than we probably think.

Sam Ovens: (11:12):

So it’s baffled me for a long time and all I can really put it down to is that the internet and entrepreneurship, it attracts a lot of people who care a lot about their image. There are a lot of people out there who honestly care more about how other people view them and how other people see them than they do about how much money they make. So there’s a word for it. I think it was narcissism or something. I mean, there definitely is some sort of weirdness in entrepreneurship and especially online entrepreneurship, their definitely is some sort of weird thing like that, where people care a lot about the fame. And that’s one element of it. And I guess the other element of it, I see this every day with consultants, there’s this whole sort of fake it till you make it thing. And in order for a client to pay you money while you’re unsuccessful, well, you have to try and make it look like you are successful. So there’s a lot of different things going on, but I think the fake it til you make it thing is definitely the biggest one.

Jack Mize: (12:36):

And I guess there’s really I guess, a cottage industry around this type, because when you think of digital marketing agency.. that’s a term that I think probably describes a very vast extreme of types of marketing agencies. And some of them are on a very different end of the spectrum from what you do, because I know some, if you go to a digital marketing agency, the first thing that they will show someone is look how beautiful a website we’ll create for you. Look how beautiful this is, not that that stuff’s not important, but you dive right into the marketing piece of it of. Like okay, let’s see how are you making money? What’s profitable, what’s converting and how can we grow that? Can you kind of describe the difference between what you do? Go in a little bit deeper about what you do versus what some people that call themselves digital marketing agencies that deal more with the aesthetic piece of it would do?

Sam Ovens: (13:41):

Sure. So there are there are people out there who help you with branding and image, and they’ll get you professional photos, they’ll help you with your logo, they might make your website look awesome. I think that stuff’s important and you should definitely have that. But the place that I focus on is just acquiring clients. So my marketing activities and systems that generate typically generate phone calls. So strategy sessions or consultations. So I’ll set up a marketing funnel for somebody that will get them scheduled calls with potential clients at a measurable price. Whereas a lot of other people will just help people with their image or how good something looks or they’ll help them with social media strategy. Which just grows their fan base. That’s the key difference. My only concern is client acquisition. I don’t really touch on any of the other branding stuff.

Jack Mize: (14:52):

So for someone, if you have a business out there, if you’re a coach or consultant, and let’s say you don’t have that narcissism bug, right. That you could care less, you have your ego at bay. Some say that well, you gotta have the branding there to make the marketing work. And some say, well, you have to have the marketing there to make the branding work. And I fully believe that. Because to me if you don’t have any marketing, nobody gets to see your pretty branding. Is it possible for someone to say I’m going to wait on this branding piece till I’m profitable and I have my systems in place to do that. Is it possible to actually get that client fulfillment and acquisition piece there before they focus a lot on the big branding side of it?

Sam Ovens: (15:50):

Yeah. Well, I always tell my clients the most successful branding activity for a consultant is your own success. So while other people might be worried about how they look in a photo or what their logo is like, or their websites. When you’re building a brand it’s what people think about when they hear a particular name. You know? So let’s say your name’s John Doe and you’re a consultant. Well, instead of spending all your time and money trying to get a nice logo and a nice photo of yourself, the best thing you can do is be successful because in the consulting game people hire successful people. More than they look at what their images and stuff look like, they look at how well they’re doing. It’s like you wouldn’t want to buy sales consultant… Like say there’s a consultant who’s really good at sales training, now you wouldn’t really feel comfortable purchasing sales training from him if he was broke.

Jack Mize: (17:04):

Right. So that’s clearly the bottom line. I guess really what I’m looking at is that it’s clear that you can have the fame without the fortune. There’s lots of people that are out there that have the fame, the image, but without the fortune to back it up. And I guess really to establish, is it possible to have the fortune without the fame? And I guess that’s where you come in and then you have proven that it is not just a possibility, but a probability when you put systems in place. Correct?

Sam Ovens: (17:38):

Yeah. Well, I think it’s totally possible and it’s actually a lot less stressful to only have the fortune without the fame. Because with fame comes all sorts of other things. Most of the people that are famous, most of their fans, they actually will never buy something from them anyway. , For me, I don’t really care about what someone thinks about me unless they’re going to pay me money. I’d rather not be known to them at all.

Jack Mize: (18:19):

You know what that right there, I think is something that so many people gloss over. The value of a follower versus the value of a customer. And so I guess that’s where you really aim. That’s your target. It’s let’s focus on customers, not followers. And a lot of people think that, well, you have to have the followers so you can convert them into customers. But do you see that that logic actually sends you down a path of spending a lot of time and effort unnecessarily to go down that thinking?

Sam Ovens: (18:56):

Yeah, for sure. I mean, it is true that you have to be known too. You can’t just be known to your customers because, well, that would be awesome. That’s the ultimate situation, right? But let’s say you need 50 clients in your consulting business to run an awesome consulting business and if those are the only people in the world that know about you, then that’s the ideal scenario. You’re known by 50 people. You’re far from famous and you have a profitable business. But generally in order to get 50 clients you might have to become known by about 500 people. And that’s still a great scenario, but where people go really wrong is when they are known by one hundred thousand people and they have six clients because then most of their time is spent feeding the needs of their fan base at the cost of their own business and at the cost of their client’s business. So now most of their time is spent working on their fame and maintaining that fame, when it really should be on helping their clients and winning more actual clients.

Jack Mize: (20:03):

Yeah. Well, I can definitely see that. That’s such a common scenario with a lot of with a lot of people out there. Let’s talk about time and the effect when someone does sit down and says, okay, this is what I’m going to focus on. And you’re working with someone, is this something that happens over a period of weeks, months, a year? When do these systems fall into place, or does it depend on where your client is at that point?

Sam Ovens: (20:57):

Typically when somebody starts working with me within 14 days we can have people start scheduling calls with them. And then from then on the average sales cycle might be around seven to 14 days. So typically within a month, we can have a process set up that has new clients coming on board with people.

Jack Mize: (21:23):

So that’s a dramatic difference in what I think a lot of people may have in their mind. because I’m thinking that when you make a shift in your thinking about what you need to focus on, that this may be over the course of this next year. That’s what I’m going to focus on. But to be able to do this, where does someone need to be in their business to make that kind of a difference within 14 days? Is this someone that’s just starting up a coaching/consulting businesses or someone that has been at it for a year has a certain level of success? What are the the kind of benchmarks that you look at to determine if someone’s a right fit to do this?

Sam Ovens: (22:06):

Yeah, that’s a great question. My ideal client is somebody who already has a consulting business set up. So they’re already in business. They have everything established. They also know who they help, they know who their ideal customer is, and they’re actually able to help them. And by that, I mean they’ve helped people and their customers are happy and they’re able to get some testimonials or some proof from their clients. So provided someone can actually help someone, they know precisely who that person is, and they’ve got a little bit of a track record of being able to do that … then 9 times out of 10, I can help that person get a whole lot more of those clients.

Jack Mize: (22:47):

So if they have the system, they know who they help, they know how they’re going to help them, then it makes it easy for you?

Sam Ovens: (22:58):

And they’ve got some proof… That’s important.

Jack Mize: (23:02):

Yeah, clearly so. So they have those three elements, then you can help them develop that gas pedal.

Sam Ovens: (23:14):

It can help put some predictability into the business and help them grow their business.

Jack Mize: (23:20):

I think that’s what so many people are lacking and what would make just a tremendous difference in so many people’s businesses, coaches, consultants just about any entrepreneur. Predictability, predictability of income, predictability of their business not just in a financial sense, but in an emotional sense, in a stress sense, in a relationship base, it effects so much. It’s something that so many people don’t realize is out there to be able to turn up the volume, turn it down, depending on if you need more clients well I just turn the knob up to get more would really be life-changing to a lot of businesses. And a lot of consultants are able to help people, they are able to really make a difference in their client’s lives.

Jack Mize: (24:14):

And that’s one of the reasons that I consider you an influencer, because you’re not just helping the consultants and coaches that are your clients, it’s really amplified by the more people that you’re helping them reach. So I really want to thank you for sharing this information with us today. How can people find out more about Sam Ovens and what you’re up to? And if they do have that consulting, coaching business and ready to move from fame to fortune how can they find out more about working with you?

Sam Ovens: (24:51):

Sure. So if they just go to, that’s my website, and you should be able to just go to the contact page and reach out.

Jack Mize: (25:03):

Fantastic. This is something that really can make a critical and tremendous difference to a lot of businesses and lives. So once again, Sam, thank you. Thanks for being here on influencers radio with us today. All right, folks, there, you have it. Check it out. Until next time on influencers radio. Remember you are the only real game changer.